The Fortune’s in the Follow-Up

Chris Lipper [00:00:00]:
You know, trade shows don’t suck. You suck at doing them, and I’m gonna prove it to you, and we’re gonna have a trade show. If you’re not gonna do the follow-up, why do the show?

Jeffro [00:00:15]:
Welcome back to Digital Dominance. Shit? Today, we’re going to talk about something that is a little less glamorous. Everybody gets excited about launching campaigns or posting interesting videos. But what about after you’ve done that? What happens when someone raises their hand and says, I’m not ready to buy, but I’m hoping to hearing more from you? You know, for many of us, this is the hard part, the follow-up, the nurturing, the drip campaigns, and the community building. We get discouraged because we don’t see immediate results, and this open ended pursuit can feel tiresome. Plus, it can feel like we are pestering and we don’t wanna be a bother, so we just don’t do it. My guest today is Chris Lippert, the founder of On the Bus Small Business Coaching. Chris is great at building relationships and nurturing his network.

Jeffro [00:00:58]:
He’s an author, facilitator, entrepreneur, and he has coached hundreds of business owners over the past 20 plus years. So we’re gonna talk about building a loyal following and how to be consistent and effective at follow-up. So thanks for being here, Chris. Welcome to the show.

Chris Lipper [00:01:12]:
Thank you. Quite the introduction. Thank you very much.

Jeffro [00:01:15]:
I appreciate that. So, Chris, you come from an entrepreneurial family, but you actually started your career on Wall Street. How has the Wall Street experience influenced the way you do things as an entrepreneur? Entrepreneur?

Chris Lipper [00:01:27]:
Well, when you work on Wall Street, depending on where you are, many times you’re working for entrepreneurs. So it’s not all big corporate. Like, I was down on the floor with a $2 broker. I was up at a mutual fund on a small trading desk. Those were both entrepreneurial type companies? So I got to see how other people ran their businesses. I also got to see, the end game for a lot of people when you become a a traded company, a publicly traded company? And, you know, for many, I guess, that’s the goal and the excitement, but, You know, man, you you lose, a lot of control and a lot of power and, you know, then you’re at the mercy of the public kinda thing. It’s, and that could be a little scary, I would think, for me at least.

Jeffro [00:02:13]:
Yeah. Well, and that’s interesting. At least it gives you that inside perspective as you’re talking to business owners and making that plan for them? So, on our topic of following up, you know, this is something that we’re constantly Learning and improving as we grow at different stages of our business, but what’s your philosophy when it comes to following up with prospects?

Chris Lipper [00:02:32]:
Well, it’s more than just prospects. Right? So it depends on what we’re talking about. But the key to everything is to follow-up. That, if you’re not gonna follow-up, why do it? You know, is what it boils down to. So I remember in 2014, I had one of my members Sitting across from me, he had just come back from a series of 3 or 4 trade shows, and his foot was on like a shoe box. I remember it was a box about the size of a shoe box? And he said, trade shows suck. I’m never doing another one. I was like, okay.

Chris Lipper [00:03:05]:
What’s in the box? What’s that box with your your your foot on? He goes, oh, those are all the leads from the show. I said, well, what have you done with those? He goes, well, they’re they’re there. And I was like, you know, trade shows don’t suck. You suck at doing them, and I’m gonna prove it to you, and we’re gonna have a trade show. And that was 20 shows ago. You know? So if you’re not gonna do the follow-up, why do the show? If you’re not gonna do You know, if you run an ad and you’ve got a phone number in the ad and people are leaving messages and you’re not calling them back, why run the ad? You know? It’s not just about looking good and feeling good. You know? Some people, many of my members go out on speaking events, I’ll ask them. I’ll say, so how did it go? And they always say, oh, it was great.

Chris Lipper [00:03:51]:
And they’re talking about how it felt. They’re not talking about the results. So I’m a guy who likes numbers, tangible things. You know? I’m not a a a fluffy kinda guy. It it it’s numbers that if you’ve got a 100 people in an audience, how many appointments did you get? Or how many books did you sell? Or how many whatevers what was your goal, and what are you doing, and how are you following up? And, again, if you’re not gonna follow-up, why do it?

Jeffro [00:04:18]:
I think a a lot of entrepreneurs get stuck in the magic bullet mentality. Right? Oh, if I just do this or I get this speaking gig or whatever, everything else will just happen. I’ll be rich and happy or whatever, but there’s a process. Like you said, you you gotta make a plan for that. Right?

Chris Lipper [00:04:34]:
Yeah. And there is no longer a just do anything. I heard recently it takes 12 touches. It used to be 7 touches. Right? I don’t know where these numbers come from, but I believe it that you it’s not a just thing, unless, you know, maybe all of a sudden you get this great interview on TV and the right people see it. Maybe that’s the just thing. It’s like those you hear about those overnight successes, but it took 20 years to get that overnight situation. So it’s not adjust?

Jeffro [00:05:01]:
Yeah. And so for you and on the bus, you know, you offer your community a lot of opportunities to engage with you. You book meetings. You oh, I mean, you have book meetings where you talk about your book. You You do networking events and even trade show conferences like you mentioned. So how do you make sure that the effort you’re putting into these things are going to generate results from your business?

Chris Lipper [00:05:23]:
So we gotta be careful with that because the book meetings, we have 2 books out. 1 is the entrepreneur’s big book featuring the 12 steps of entrepreneurship and the other is a sales training workbook, the intent of those books is for our members. So it’s their their member meetings outside people don’t come where we listen to the audible copy of the book and then have a group discussion on it? So it’s not that kind of meeting. Now we can we will use the promotion of it to attract others. Right? Because people might be interested, and they can come to 1 for free and check it out and kick tires kinda thing. So that that’s one aspect. The trade shows are totally different. That’s the masses.

Chris Lipper [00:06:06]:
Right? That’s the last show we had, I think, 300 people come 435 times to a 3 hour show. And, you know, they’ll all be invited again. They’re all in our drip marketing, and they will hear from us repeatedly, until the next show and then the one after that.

Jeffro [00:06:21]:
How long on average do you expect it to take to move someone from interested to client? You know, maybe you met them on a networking call, And now they are on your drip meetings. Do you have any sense there of how to map that out?

Chris Lipper [00:06:35]:
So to client, I would view it how long would it take to from meeting them to prospect meeting to figuring out 1 if we’re a fit for each other if we want them and if they want us and if we’re a fit. But more accurately, it’s how long till they start coming to our other events, to our networking groups or our other things, and that happens relatively quickly. And then we get to know each other on that level? So that’s generally a next step for us is they’ll start coming to our other events.

Jeffro [00:07:03]:
Well, it helps that the events are free. Right? Because it lowers that barrier, to entry. It’s not as big of a commitment to just show up to a networking event because they feel like they’re gonna get something out of it too, right, while they get to check it out.

Chris Lipper [00:07:15]:
And even for our exhibitors. Right? So with our exhibitors, we have 2 classes before the trade shows. We get to know each other pretty well then. And those are solid relationships. With the attendees, you know, they’re just coming you know, it’s like a school of fish coming in and going out in a 3 hour period. It’s hard to get a handle for who everyone is. So I do rely on the drip marketing quite a bit afterwards.

Jeffro [00:07:37]:
And and and you’re very consistent with emails. You send about 2 a week to your list about upcoming events and everything and letting people know what’s out there? Do you ever get anyone saying that’s too much?

Chris Lipper [00:07:48]:
The, you know, the problem with that is they don’t say it. They just unsubscribe, so you never know. You know because your list gets smaller. Right? We try to send out announcements on Mondays and Wednesdays? And that’s because our events are typically Mondays and Thursdays, and we’re trying to remind people of them. So they they get on the calendar and they register? We send to, I don’t know, I I guess about 4, 5000 people a week, And the received is over 3,000, I’m guessing, at this point. I looked the other day. I I think that’s okay. People don’t unsubscribe in masses? The ones that have have.

Chris Lipper [00:08:30]:
So

Jeffro [00:08:30]:
Well, in a way, it kind of refines You’re following to be more in line with who you wanna be working with. Right? They’re kind of self selecting out. Right? If they’re identifying, this is too much. It’s not really what I want. They leave, and and that’s a good thing. Right?

Chris Lipper [00:08:42]:
Yeah. Then we’re not a fit for them, and they they they get a vote in that equation. Right? They get a 51% vote. We’ll give them that.

Jeffro [00:08:48]:
Sounds good. So what about when you’re pursuing A specific prospect for one reason or another. You know, maybe they’re a big client or a strategic one. How do you decide where to draw the line between persistence and pestering?

Chris Lipper [00:09:01]:
I don’t. I’ve never been asked that before. And, you know, if I wanna get an appointment with someone, I’m gonna get the appointment. There there’s no shout about that? It’s generally a matter of finding the right someone. You know, in this day and age, we can meet with anyone, yeah, within reason, I guess. But my challenge is really finding those prospects. It’s more finding the people that I want to meet with than than actually meeting with them.

Jeffro [00:09:27]:
Because at this point, you’ve built up a brand. You’ve got all this value to provide. So it’s a much easier ask to have a quick meeting than it is when you’re just starting out and you don’t really know why they’d wanna meet with you in the 1st place?

Chris Lipper [00:09:39]:
Yeah. And because of our following and because of our traffic, there’s nobody who wouldn’t wanna meet. I don’t wanna say it sound arrogant, but who wouldn’t wanna meet with me if I’ve got this, you know, kind of community behind me? You know, if you’re let’s say you’re, you know, a marketing guy at a bank or or something like that, of course, they they’re gonna wanna meet.

Jeffro [00:09:57]:
Well, you’ve given them reason to over time, and that’s something that you build up As a business over time, it doesn’t happen overnight.

Chris Lipper [00:10:03]:
And we do unique stuff. You know? Like, our our whole, virtual platforms forms? Where whether it was Lipperville when we had our city or if it’s the the international virtual conferences, there aren’t a lot of people doing this stuff. Or then you throw in the mastermind groups and the sales training and the, networking groups. You you throw it all together. It’s a nice package, and they can pick and choose.

Jeffro [00:10:24]:
Yeah. And it’s great for people who’ve been solopreneurs and just kinda doing it on their own. And now suddenly there’s a community that people understand what they’re going through, and also you get to grow at the same time and be held accountable so that you kind of can relight that fire for you if you’re kinda getting burned out on business. Kinda refocuses, and now you’re going with a cohort essentially, and moving forward with people on your side who are rooting for you.

Chris Lipper [00:10:49]:
You know, it’s funny. I was as you know, once a month, we go through a bus pass, and we track behavioral goals with our members. I actually set 1 up for myself today, and it’s fascinating. I haven’t done that before. And, you know, so I’m I’m gonna start treating myself as a client? Just because we big year already, and it’s only January, what, 12th or something, and, you know, we’ve already broken many goals?

Jeffro [00:11:14]:
Well, that’s great. I mean, you have to set the example for the clients, so good for you. Now I will say one of the things you’re good at is maintaining your level of engagement even after the transition from prospect to client? You know, a subscriber might get used to frequent communication while you’re wooing them, But the worst thing you can do is go silent after they finally say yes. So can you talk about what has to happen for that smooth and successful transition?

Chris Lipper [00:11:37]:
So So it’s interesting as you were saying that. I was thinking the other way, how I do go silent when they’ve said yes and then they leave, and then all of a sudden, you know, that communication then stops. But, yeah, once somebody’s engaged and they’re in our community, they’re the star. You know? And we’re going to do everything we hand to make sure they’re meeting the right people and they know what questions to ask and and they know where they’re going with this and they know what they’re building and who they wanna be surrounded by? It’s all about them.

Jeffro [00:12:05]:
Gotcha. Well, I I think you’re being too hard on yourself. I think you do a good job of bringing them to the forefront and welcoming them to the group, introducing them to people, making networking connections right away, poking them, making sure they’re coming to the networking groups. You’re doing that. And and so that that’s what I’m talking about. And and that makes people feel like they made the right choice, and they are getting the value right off the bat. It’s not like They were just a number to you. You’re actually caring about them making progress.

Jeffro [00:12:32]:
Right?

Chris Lipper [00:12:32]:
100%. You’re right with that. Yeah. A 100%. That there are no wallflowers in our community. I will make sure of that, that everybody’s involved, everybody’s engaged, and sometimes they come kicking and screaming, but they do come. You know? It’s, That that’s all part of it.

Jeffro [00:12:46]:
Yeah. You make sure they’re there. So do you have any stories from coaching clients where they were struggling with follow-up? You mentioned that 1 guy about the trade show who didn’t really feel like it? But do you have any other examples that you can share with us?

Chris Lipper [00:12:59]:
Lately, our I guess, similar, but, You know, sometimes entrepreneurs would they’ll take it to the the 5 yard line. They have a hard time completing things sometimes? I know it’s not the exact question you’re asking, but maybe it’s similar that sometimes there can be a fear of success. That they they like doing the work. Right? They like the engagement, but they don’t wanna always hear no, so they won’t go that extra 5 yards. And I I don’t quite understand that, but I do see that quite a bit. So my job is to push them over those last 5 yards, you know, and get them to ask for the the order or whatever it is. They’ve done the work. So let’s just go for it.

Chris Lipper [00:13:43]:
What’s the worst thing that happens if somebody says no? So I’m not sure if that answer I don’t know if that answered your question, but that’s where my head went when you asked it.

Jeffro [00:13:51]:
Well, it get it’s a good illustration because I think it’s It’s accurate. You know, a lot of us have personal beliefs or upbringing that kind of inform that. It’s somewhere in our brain. You know, maybe our parents didn’t ever finish things, and so now we Subconsciously think that, you know, you don’t even realize we’re doing it, but you’re kinda sabotaging yourself in the same way because we’ve picked up on these traits. And so maybe that’s where that comes from, and we gotta keep doing more personal development to identify those things that are roadblocks for us. And That’s why it’s so helpful to have a coach and a community to help push us past those and recognize that those are, getting in the way and holding us back.

Chris Lipper [00:14:27]:
Yeah. And part of how we start with everybody is with a vision of where they’re going, and I think that helps. Because sometimes there’s like imposter syndrome or whatever the trendy word if it is? But it’s, they don’t feel worthy of the success they’re having, and I don’t quite get that because they’re great at what they do, and they’re doing the work to get there, why not take it to a next level? And I’ve had some members say, look. You know, I’m happy where I’m at. And, yeah, that’s where good becomes the enemy of great. When they come to me, they wanna be great. Right? But then, they get good, and that’s, like, good enough. And that’s when I I I want them to be great and stay stay in that direction.

Jeffro [00:15:10]:
So I’m reading a book by Dan Martell right now, and he talks about how a lot of entrepreneurs are addicted to chaos? Meaning, you know, maybe we grew up in environments we moved a lot or had a lot of shifts in schools or, whatever it was, families were crazy, and we learned how to adapt and really survive and do well in those types of environments. So then when we get to a place where things are now organized, we’ve got our KPIs, we’re doing our monthly reports, and it’s all seems to be moving smoothly, we kind of like our brain’s like, no. No. Something’s wrong. There’s there’s no chaos here, and so we kind of throw the hand grenade to make the chaos, and then we feel more comfortable.

Chris Lipper [00:15:49]:
You know, in the recent book, we talk about that in our 6th step. And, you know, sometimes, if there isn’t chaos, we’ll create the drama. So almost we can stir the pot and get but we don’t need to self sabotage like that. Right? And we have steps and other things we can do, so that doesn’t happen? But you’re right. That that can happen, especially with a a fast growing company that has now gotten to where they wanna be, and I’m not suggesting testing anyone coast? But now let’s keep growing in an organized fashion. You know, we we don’t need the craziness all the time.

Jeffro [00:16:25]:
So what are some other common mistakes that you’ve seen business owners make when trying to do follow-up or building their community?

Chris Lipper [00:16:32]:
So I see it with solopreneurs a lot, and I see it with lawyers in particular for some reason that they’re either selling or doing, selling or doing, and their year ends up very jagged in terms of revenue. And they forget that while they’re doing, they still need to be networking and doing some of the other things. And I I I see that as a huge issue. And there are very few people that are good at both. You know? I think that’s why they are solopreneurs because they are good at both. Most can’t sell and do, and that’s why they become employees. Right? And they’re they’re good at one of those things. There’s nothing wrong with that.

Chris Lipper [00:17:08]:
But the solopreneur is a special breed of person, and they need to be able to use their calendar well to make sure they’re still going to their networking events, still having their one to ones, still doing their follow-up, while doing the business? And I think it’s a matter of using your

Jeffro [00:17:26]:
calendar well. Yeah. And because there’s a lag time on those efforts. Right? You don’t get

Chris Lipper [00:17:31]:
immediate Generally, about

Jeffro [00:17:32]:
3 months. Right. Exactly. Or 90 days. And, guys, there’s another episode of the show with Christine Campbell wrapping, where we talk about this in more detail. But go check out that episode if you wanna understand more about that lag and how you can be focused on making sure that that pipeline is always full. But it’s the same idea. Right? As long as you’re doing the right things on a consistent basis, then you won’t have that up and down because you’re, like, Gotta do the stuff, then I gotta market, then okay.

Chris Lipper [00:18:00]:
And that’s why our our coaching’s a little different than most because we do start with a vision. And sometimes the vision’s an exit or a franchising, franchising? Whatever their exit their their plan is at the end, but we break it down to behaviors, and the behaviors are what we track. It’s not the KPIs. The KPIs, in my opinion, are a result of the behaviors. And we can’t control that, but we can control the behaviors. So an example, if we go to networking events, we can control how many one to ones are we having. And if we’re not getting the one to ones and we’re trying, why are we going? Let’s find a different group, or let’s get trained on how to do it differently.

Jeffro [00:18:38]:
It’s, the fortune is in the follow-up. Right? We’ve heard that phrase. And If you’re doing the right things on a consistent basis, then the results will inevitably follow. And you can always improve and iterate on those results to make sure they come faster or better or whatever? But if you’re not doing the stuff in the 1st place or not following up with the leads you’re getting from the trade shows, then What’s the point? So this is all great reminders.

Chris Lipper [00:19:03]:
We gotta make sure we’re fishing in the right holes too. You know, we gotta find those Goldilocks groups kind of thing? The the words, the right audience for us. And sometimes as we grow, those audiences may not have also grown, then we find next audiences, next fishing holes. And that’s where a lot of our members are are at. They they’re they’re evolving and growing, so they need to find next groups and next people to hang with?

Jeffro [00:19:26]:
Right. And and that makes sense. And you’re a great person at helping identify that for people and kind of moving them where they need to be or pushing them in that direction. But we are coming up on the end of our time for today. I do appreciate you sharing with us, Chris. There’s lots of nuggets in this conversation that people can learn from and Put your practice in their own businesses to improve their own follow-up and their own outcomes overall. So, guys, check out the links in the description. If you’re a small business owner and you’ve been doing this on your own, check out Chris’s books, check out on the bus, or schedule a meeting with Chris.

Jeffro [00:19:56]:
He has lots of resources to help you get more traction in your business. And if you had a light bulb moment while listening to today’s episode, I wanna know about it. So send me a quick message on LinkedIn. Let me know what it was. Chris, do you have any closing thoughts for us?

Chris Lipper [00:20:09]:
Well, first, I just wanna say thank you, and thank you for what you’re doing. I I hope that everyone enjoys this. My thought is that for business owners, you don’t have to do this alone. You know, being a business owner, who do you talk to when you have an idea? Who do you talk to when you have challenge? A network of other owners is a great thing. I I’m sure you have your golf buddies and your bartenders and your spouses and all of that and you even your accountants, but it’s not the same as talking to other owners that have been through this and get feedback and learn from their mistakes so you don’t have to make them. And that’s what our community does. But it

Jeffro [00:20:45]:
just helps. Agreed. 100%. So thanks again for being here, Chris. Thanks to everybody listening. Now, guys, get out there, start dominating, and I’ll see you in the next episode.

Chris Lipper [00:20:54]:
Thank you very much.