Building a Video Marketing Strategy that Works

Jeffro (00:01.613)
Welcome back to Digital Dominance. It’s been clear for a while that our world is moving towards video. In previous episodes, we’ve talked about video storytelling and short form video on social media. But if you want your videos to be effective, you need a good video marketing strategy. It doesn’t matter how great your video is if no one ever sees it. So I wanted to dive into that a little bit deeper today. And to help me with that, I’ve invited my friend Tony Hsieh on the podcast. And no, I’m not talking about the former CEO of Zappos. 

This Tony Hsieh is an accomplished entrepreneur in his own right. He’s a TEDx speaker, producer, and standup comedian with a decade long track record of success across multiple industries. As the founder of Shriller Creative, Tony channels his passion for innovation into empowering individuals and businesses to thrive through strategic creativity and effective storytelling. He has extensive experience in technology, e-commerce, and marketing. And his mission is to help people turn their passion into profitable businesses.

and supercharge their growth. So thank you for being here, Tony, and welcome to the show.

Tony Hsieh (01:04.546)
Thank you for having me, Jeffro, and thank you for the amazing introduction.

Jeffro (01:09.465)
Well, I think you wrote most of it, but I’m happy to share it with our listeners because it’s all true. Now, my goal for today is to help our listeners understand what goes into a video marketing strategy and how to create one. Can you start by sharing with us why you believe video marketing is so crucial for service businesses specifically?

Tony Hsieh (01:26.43)
Yeah, of course. So specifically for service businesses is number one, print, uh, visuals or static images and texts just no longer works. Right. I mean, it’s, it’s pretty clear nowadays that, you know, if you’re still stuck in the 2010s of, you know, posting Instagram, uh, what do you call it? Instagram texts and, and all that stuff. It just doesn’t really, it doesn’t really serve your audiences.

what you’re able to provide, right? And number one thing when it comes to services or products in general, all of our clients, the number one thing we try to bring up is that you need to make it very, very clear on what is a value that you provide, right? What is a pain point that you’re able to solve for your clients, right? And video is just the most effective way of doing that, right? Now videos, it can be very straightforward, it can be very informative, it can be educational, it can also be very emotional.

And we all know that people buy based on emotions. We just try to justify it with logic after that. And that is why video is the most effective way of being able to communicate that effectively and efficiently with your clients, specifically for services. And yeah, and for services, depending on the range, we have clients who are speakers, we have clients who are coaches, we have clients who are health and wellness space.

et cetera. It all comes down to being able to be very clear on not just what you do, how you do it, but also why you do it. Right. And that’s like a huge part of really what, what stands you out in, in the crowd of different services. Right. And I truly believe in this, this abundance mindset of like your clients are everywhere. It’s just a matter of like reaching out to them, right. Finding the connects. And again, this is where the video really comes in because you could have 10 people selling the same thing.

but only one person is going to connect with that individual in a way that is truly, in a way it’s almost like meant to be, right? So, you know, specifically video is just so effective in that.

Jeffro (03:25.669)
Mm-hmm.

Jeffro (03:30.097)
So here’s a question. You mentioned how we buy with emotion and then justify with logic. I believe that’s definitely true for B2C businesses, right? When you’re selling to a consumer as an individual, that’s how we approach things. But what about B2B businesses? Are they more focused on the numbers of the returns and does video still apply in the same way? If you’re a janitorial service, your clients are other businesses. Does that still work the same way or do you have to approach it differently?

Tony Hsieh (03:59.422)
Yeah, I think to the subconscious level, it still works the same way in a sense of like, you’re going to, sure, you’re going to look at the numbers, you know, and by the way, it’s not saying, I’m not saying that people don’t use logic at all whatsoever, but it’s more so like subconsciously that emotional connect and the emotional drive is always going to be so much more powerful than your logical thinking. Right. So it really comes down to, it’s the same thing, right? Like if you’re B2B, right, if you go to these conventions, you have like thousands of brands, right?

What makes you stand out is going to be you, who you are as a person, how you connect with the person. People are going to, it’s very, it comes down to very fundamental of like, if people like you, remember you, that is the number one thing. If you’re talking to a thousand brands and you just become another person, then it doesn’t matter. Like, I mean, sure, your numbers might stand out, but like they don’t remember you and they don’t, you know, they don’t like you even.

They might pick somebody who might quote unquote numbers wise, um, be slightly less performance, but they might want to work with that more. Right. So it just comes down to being able to make the connection at that level, even at the B2B and, you know, a lot of our, with clients that are a B2B, it comes down to being able to present their business in a way that connects with other businesses that will want to buy the service as well. So.

Jeffro (05:23.545)
Yeah, well, I think it improves the perception in other people’s minds of your business and what you’re offering. Because even if you have the same services and the same prices as the next guy, but you’ve got this nice video, it makes you look way better and more professional as long as you’ve done it right. So yeah, that makes sense. Thanks for watching.

Tony Hsieh (05:38.634)
Yep. Absolutely.

Jeffro (05:42.129)
So can you walk us through the process of developing a video marketing strategy for a service business? We agree, okay, this helps, now we wanna do it. Where do we start?

Tony Hsieh (05:52.735)
So let’s start from, let’s give a test avatar, right? Like what would be, give me a random service.

Jeffro (06:01.108)
uh, roofer.

Tony Hsieh (06:02.506)
A roofer. Cool. That’s an interesting one. So a roofer, first thing first, you need to figure out, well, number one, where are you located?

Jeffro (06:11.517)
Okay. Do you want me to give you a location or are you just?

Tony Hsieh (06:12.982)
All right. Uh, so, sure. So let’s, let’s do, yeah, let’s, let’s just do a test example of like, where are you located? Yep. Great. Glendale, California, and you are a roofer and how long have you been in business? 15 years. Great. And what was your, and I’m just kind of going through a, uh, kind of quick exercise. Right. I tell me about what has worked for you in advertising. What hasn’t worked for you so far marketing yourself.

Jeffro (06:17.713)
Let’s say Glendale, California.

Jeffro (06:24.71)
15 years.

Jeffro (06:30.055)
Sure.

Jeffro (06:37.353)
I put my sign up when I’m doing a roofing job and I get calls from that most of the time. Haven’t really done much else that’s worked.

Tony Hsieh (06:45.034)
So you haven’t really done like any sort of digital or organic or paid marketing out there.

Jeffro (06:52.097)
I mean, I had my nephew run some ads for me once. We spent about 500 bucks, but we didn’t really see anything come from that.

Tony Hsieh (06:58.582)
Gotcha. So first thing first, who are the people that you serve?

Jeffro (07:04.017)
Well, I think there are a lot of experts and professionals that work in, you know, the greater Los Angeles area. A lot of them commute in to some of the bigger companies down there. So they make decent income. Obviously, some of these houses are older, so they need to fix their roofs. So just kind of when they need it, here I am.

Tony Hsieh (07:25.782)
Gotcha. So your target audience would be these service companies that need your specific expertise.

Jeffro (07:32.655)
Not the homeowners.

Tony Hsieh (07:33.698)
The homeowners, right? So it’s not like you would go to another company. Cool. I just want to clarify that. So it would be essentially D to Z. Right. Great. So homeowners. So the, the number one thing is that clearly there are a lot of people who, who need your kind of service, right? So two things that you need to know. Number one is that they either just don’t, they’re not aware of who you are. Right. Or they might be aware of who you are, but they don’t trust you. Right. Why should they trust you? Cause you’re nobody, right? You’re nobody to them.

Jeffro (07:40.743)
Mm-hmm.

Jeffro (08:00.477)
Okay.

Tony Hsieh (08:03.522)
Right. So it comes down to, uh, let’s say you’re Glendale, right. Um, especially for, for this kind of services, I would really start from a smaller scale of understanding, okay. Like around my area, right? Like who are like, who were some of your past most successful clients?

Jeffro (08:23.653)
Oh, well, I could name them. You want me to go talk to them, get reviews? Is that what you mean?

Tony Hsieh (08:30.618)
No, no, no. So that’s actually one way to do it too. Like referral, obviously you can create testimonials. That’s one type of video that you can create, right? But think of them as an avatar, right? When it comes to like the successful clients that you were able to really get the job done and also be able to continue providing them services, right? Cause really it just comes down to, I think for almost every service, it comes down to being able to create a relationship that is a…

what’s it called, reoccurring businesses, right? And it’s funny, it’s one of those things where it’s like, you are doing a great job, same thing with like website design or videos or roofing, right? The goal is that you’re doing so great of a job that they don’t need your service anymore again, but then at the same time, is they also, you know, you will want them to basically call you whenever a problem arises, right? So.

Jeffro (09:03.728)
Mm-hmm.

Tony Hsieh (09:26.326)
Let’s go back to the video asset. So the first thing first is you need to really first thing to put yourself out there. Let’s say just high level strategy, what we call the creative funnel. The creative funnel is essentially getting the experience for the customer’s journey all the way from exposure to conversion. Exposure is, hey, I see this person who does roofing all the way to, you know what? I trust this guy.

Jack or Jeff. Let’s say, Jeff, you know what? I trust you to fix my roof or get my roof done. So the exposure all the way to conversion, number one, being aware of it. So you can do many things. Number one, you can do starting from organic content, a.k.a. talk about the problem that people have. So roofing. We can start with content, and I can give you

random ideas just off the top of my head. You can start from organic content. You can create a whole series around the myths of Roofing and why people miss or misunderstandings of Roofing in the service. So providing educational value, free value out there as much as possible. And then maybe go behind the scene. What are some of the tools I use? Here’s how I get these things done. It’s kind of like how people search for how to.

Jeffro (10:53.912)
Mm-hmm.

Tony Hsieh (10:54.502)
And then they ended up buying a service they’re just searching for. Right. So for example, it might be like, Hey, how to do this specific thing for a website. Yeah. I’m trying to do this. And then they search for it and then they were watching through it. And you know, wow, this is crazy. I’m getting so much value. Right. But you know what? I’m not going to do it myself. Let me just hire this guy who, who just made this video about it. Right. And this is very common right now, this is specifically on video, right? Cause Google.

Especially on YouTube, Google is the number one search engine. People search for stuff and search for, number one, they want to get the information they want. Number two, they want to see how valid it is. They search for testimonials. They test for reviews. So that kind of connects back to what you were talking about when it comes to, hey, you have some existing clients. Let’s get some testimonials. Literally reach out to all your successful clients and just ask them for a quick video using cell phone. Nothing fancy. And then put together.

a quick testimonial video series where it’s like, you know, but these are the, cause when people see videos, it’s just so much more trusted, uh, than just text. Right. So we kind of cover a quick exposure aspect, AKA, uh, you can create organic content, right? Putting yourself out there with a lot of information, provide free value. Right. So, so you become the expert, right? You become the expert in somebody in mind, right? You become the authority of, uh, whoever.

Jeffro (11:56.413)
Mm-hmm.

Tony Hsieh (12:17.586)
it is that are searching for things, right? It’s kind of like, it doesn’t matter how great of a service you have, if nobody knows about you, nobody cares, right? And you have to be the first one to come into people’s head, right? It’s kind of like, we use the verb Google, right? I mean, Google wasn’t even the first search engine. We used the word Uber, right? Like Lyft came out first, technically, right? So it’s being able to be the first in people’s minds, right? How can you become that specific roofer?

that you are so special in somebody’s head. Who knows? It could be the roofer with the hair. It could be that roofer who sings while he whatever. You find your own voice creating that. Make sense so far with the organic aspect? Yes.

Jeffro (12:47.613)
All right.

Jeffro (12:53.603)
Yeah.

Jeffro (13:01.165)
It does. Let me interject real quick. Cause you know, as me, I’m a busy roofer. This is starting to sound like a lot of work. You know, I’m, I’m willing to do a project to kind of help with stuff. And I, I tend to think in projects, you know, if my kids want something to play with I’ll put in a weekend or two, build a tree house. Now they have it. It’s done. I can go back to my other stuff. Like can I just make a video or two and go back to what I’m doing and have it just work for me?

Tony Hsieh (13:09.547)
Yep.

Jeffro (13:29.17)
How many videos do I need? How often am I going to be posting in all of this? Because it sounds like a lot goes into it.

Tony Hsieh (13:36.322)
That’s a great question. Number one, yes, it is a lot of work to go into it. But how much work are you willing to do to put yourself out there? Or are you willing to work with experts like myself or people like Jeff? We have specific expertise in very specific field. Now, when it comes to being as efficient as possible, absolutely, you can go by project. You can go by, hey, you know what? Let me just start from one explainer video.

Jeffro (13:40.646)
Hehehe

Tony Hsieh (14:04.77)
Let me just create a explainer video. Like talk about what I do, who I am, right. And why should you work with me? Right. And then you can use that video. And I’m talking about like setting your phone down and just record it and post it. Right. Guess what? You can put that in your email. You can text it to people. You can all that, right. Um, very fundamental basics, right. All organic create that. That’s one project. And then the second project we talked about. Testimony of videos. You need people, right? Let’s say people are like, Hey, you know what? Uh,

Tell me after they watch your explainer video, right? Like who you do, your pricing, whatever, however you wanna work. And then, hey, like, do you have, like, I just need some referrals, right? Boom, PS, here’s a testimonial video by these other people I’ve done before and after. That’s a really important one, by the way. Before and after photos slash videos, right? That’s really important. Yeah, so I would say if you’re starting from projects like this, being able to…

Jeffro (14:55.601)
Hmm.

Tony Hsieh (15:04.162)
get it started so you at least have very easy access for people to understand and trust your business because the reality is most people don’t want to spend more than like two minutes, you know, like, I like figuring it out what you do as a service. So, you know, being as effective as possible and they’re definitely not going to read stuff. Most people don’t read like, yeah, even with the intent.

Jeffro (15:30.366)
Right. Well, video’s a good way to kind of clone yourself because, you know, when you meet a prospect, you’re going to be telling a lot of the same things over and over, explaining how stuff works, your pricing, the projects and options. And so if you make a video doing that, okay, now people can be watching that while you’re on a job, right? And kind of getting that same info. So you’re saving yourself time and at the same time making yourself look more professional.

Tony Hsieh (15:53.854)
Absolutely. And yeah, you’re brought up a great point, right? I mean, that’s a huge reason why people create videos because it’s reusable and you can, you can scale, right? You can talk to, let’s say you’re in Glendale, you can create a video. Hey, Glendale house owners, right? Homeowners, right? Has this ever happened to you? Problem, problem, right? Well, over the past 15 years I’ve been creating, you know, I’ve, I’ve been helping these families. I’m just literally spewing out a script right now. Right. Uh, you, you get their attention.

by, hey, you know what? Oh, wow, I am scrolling on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, whatever platform you want. This guy is talking to me, I live in Glendale, right? And then, oh my God, this guy talks about the problem I was just thinking two weeks ago, but I never even bothered finding, right? Boom, here we are, you’re targeting them, right? And then you go through the process of converting to them. And this applies to every single person in Glendale and you can expand from there, right? So.

Jeffro (16:48.669)
So what about, I don’t like talking like that. It sounds like I’m a solicitor. That’s why I have the no soliciting signs. And now if I’m gonna make videos saying, have you had this problem? You know, that’s just not me. How can I still make videos that are gonna provide value to people and make them wanna hire me without doing it in that format, for example?

Tony Hsieh (16:58.537)
Mm-hmm.

Tony Hsieh (17:09.59)
That’s, that’s a great question. So you’re talking about you are either number one, not comfortable being on camera or number two, you don’t want to talk like that, right? Um, so there are different ways to solve it. Um, obviously the obvious one would be. If you’re working with people like us, we would have the entire cast and crew team. Right. We will hire actors, right. Uh, that would essentially be you. Right. Uh, I’m not sure if you’re, if seen, um,

We did one, there’s an ad, I forgot who it was, but you can joke about it too, right? Well, this is Jeff, and this is an actor that we hired that is substantially more better looking than Jeff, you know? Like, I mean, a much more handsome version of Jeff, you know? Like something like that, right? And then we actually poke fun of it and then, you know, be very creative with that. And the benefit of working with actors is obviously they’re trained actors. So…

Jeffro (17:49.777)
Hehehehe

Jeffro (17:53.958)
Mm-hmm.

Tony Hsieh (18:05.014)
We are able to be as creative as we want when it comes to the presentation Right and that’s a whole other topic when it comes to you saying the same thing But you can present it a gazillion ways right going back to the topic of not wanting to show up on camera Besides potentially hiring actor number two. Let’s say you do want to be on camera, but you don’t want to talk salesy, right? Well, guess what? if you just focus on Being as authentic as possible, right? Sometimes that is the most effective way, right?

And that’s why things like podcasts has become so effective nowadays is because it’s just people having conversations, right? What if you just sit down, right? It’s, it’s kind of like, imagine you’re just shooting the shits with your, with the boys, right, or, or friends or whatever, or other roofers, right? Just sitting there, you’re just having a conversation, right? Even capturing those. That’s a really effective way of.

you know, providing value and content, right? You can just casually talk about, well, there’s this one project that worked on here or some other things, right? You go through that experience. That’s also a very effective way of content creations because people are always curious, right, about whatever topic that, if they’re already searching for it and they’re obviously interested, it’s just a matter of like getting them hooked into your content, right? So that’s another way to be not.

to salesy.

Jeffro (19:28.161)
Yeah, well and another thing, I’m not gonna be a roofer anymore, I’m just gonna be myself. But I know, right?

Tony Hsieh (19:33.034)
Yeah. You give me a tough one. We’ve done other ones that are more challenging too, by the way. Like just the most random jobs.

Jeffro (19:41.497)
Well, I mean, the thing is, like, there’s always a solution, right? You may not know it on iteration one, but you can test up and you’re never going to find out what the answer is until you start trying things and getting it out there. But I was just going to say another type of video you can do is topical. So you don’t need to watch the news. You need to watch the weather. If you’re a roofer, right? You might say, Hey, we’ve got hurricane strength winds coming. Have you checked your roof? Uh, is how the tiles are going to blow off? Or, you know, the rains are coming. We might get hail. Uh,

Tony Hsieh (19:47.479)
Mm-hmm.

Jeffro (20:10.981)
Were you leaking last time? Did you ever get around to fixing it? You know, stuff like that. You don’t have to be salesy, but just reminding people, hey, you might want to take a look at this. I can come help. Here’s how I can help.

Tony Hsieh (20:20.746)
Absolutely. And that’s almost like the tent pole strategy, right? You go around specific topics, right? That connects to you one way or the other, right? It’s like some businesses, they can find anything that connects to Taylor Swift or whatever, right? Like it could be, yeah, I mean, you could be a roofing service. I don’t know, like Taylor Swift, like, hey, has this ever happened to you? I don’t know if this is like something that would be connected, but like, you know, like whatever. Taylor Swift is having consoles around you and then like, whatever, the shaking, you know.

Jeffro (20:37.789)
Hehehe

Tony Hsieh (20:50.734)
I’m just making stuff up at this point. But the point is absolutely, like some sort of problem that a pain point that people can immediately connect to, that’s how you do it. And without being, you’re not really selling your service. You’re telling people, hey, there’s a solution to the problem that you already know. So.

Jeffro (21:07.773)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you can make videos about the roofing eras and all your experience on the shingle roofs and the tile roofs and the pitch roofs, anything like that. But, and that actually kind of segues into my next point that I wanna make is that, you know, there’s tons of video content being posted and you kind of have to be interesting to make your stuff stand out, right? You either, you wanna do a combination of really good targeting so the right people see it, but you have to make your videos interesting and worth watching. Otherwise.

Tony Hsieh (21:14.751)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jeffro (21:36.093)
It’s not gonna go anywhere, it’s not really gonna help you. So you don’t have to dance and do the TikTok trends, but be creative with it, be yourself like you mentioned, and at the same time, stay relevant to the thing you do and how you help people. And that’s probably what’s gonna come through the.

Tony Hsieh (21:51.638)
Yeah, absolutely. Being, being interesting, uh, and being relatable, uh, and being again, authentic, right? Being as authentic as possible. That’s really what I’m, what’s going to make you stand out. You could be a roofer who loves jazz or whatever it is, right? That’s you. That’s who you are. Nobody else can. Right. Uh, I mean, there might be another person who is like very similar, but guess what? They don’t have your beautiful face. Right. So it comes down to.

Jeffro (22:08.573)
Exactly. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Tony Hsieh (22:19.102)
It comes down to really just being who you are and connecting. And this kind of connects to, you know, sort of what I’ve been fortunate enough to, to help a lot of our clients on is just really connecting like your, your passion, right? Uh, you’re like who you truly are in fulfillment into like a profitable, not just business, but profitable life, right? Because so many people, you know, focus so much on successes, but not having a lot enough fulfillment, right? So that’s like a really big part of why I believe, you know, like

connecting the dots of like turning people’s passion into a profit over life and also through the medium of video creation being able to show that to people right and connect even more people and helping them doing so

Jeffro (23:00.089)
Yeah, well, and that’s a good way to kind of bring us towards our close here. We talked a little bit about the actual marketing strategy with videos, but I think the important thing that we went through is how to make good videos, right, and why you should make videos and some options for types of videos you can create. So that at least is a starting point. And you can kind of you can come up with a strategy, but you might need to modify it as you go to, right, to.

Tony Hsieh (23:14.551)
Thank you.

Jeffro (23:26.981)
start doubling down on the things that are working, get rid of the stuff that’s not working, and just stay consistent with it over time. And that’s how you’re gonna get to a place where it’s the most effective, is by being consistent.

Tony Hsieh (23:37.47)
Yep, absolutely. And having a strategy and be able to pivot and take a look at the data, what’s working, what’s not working. And, and also this, I want to do mention this, um, a big part of we’re talking about that the creative funnel is like the entire journey goes beyond just like exposure, uh, all the way to, right. Uh, just from the creative side all the way to like converting. Okay. I’m ready to go. I guess what you need a good website. You need a good site that converts. Right. So we have clients that are like.

Jeffro (24:05.859)
Yep.

Tony Hsieh (24:07.306)
We can literally show them all the numbers that are like just crushing. You’re getting so many clicks through to your website, but then they don’t convert, right? And that’s why it’s such a important part of the journey, making sure, you know, experts like yourself, Jeff, right? Like helping people just optimize their entire site so they can convert more efficiently, right? Cause it sucks when I see people’s site don’t convert.

It’s like you see all the numbers, man. It’s, it’s literally like people walking into your store, literally picking up, but then your check register doesn’t work, you know, and that’s the worst.

Jeffro (24:40.845)
Yeah, well they put in all this time and money into campaigns getting people there, right? You don’t want to waste that and have them leave because now you look like you’re a scam or something. So definitely. Thanks for bringing that up. And thank you for joining me today, Tony. I do love videos, I love making videos, and I want to see people making higher quality videos for their businesses as well. For those of you guys listening, go watch Tony’s TEDx Talk. And if you need help with your own video strategy, go connect with him on LinkedIn.

Tony Hsieh (24:46.249)
Yeah.

Tony Hsieh (24:49.974)
Yep. Absolutely. So yeah.

Jeffro (25:08.377)
or check out his website at shri He has a creative health score quiz that you can take to get a better idea of where you stand. One last question for you, Tony. What’s your most memorable video marketing campaign that you worked on?

Tony Hsieh (25:21.782)
Uh, one of my most memorable video marketing campaign I worked on, um, it’s not the most successful one. I have one, um, that is, you know, uh, generated and took a business from, uh, you know, in, in the seven digits into the, into the eight digits. Um, but there’s this one project that we worked on. Um, it did well, but it was just the experience of it. It was really cool. It’s apparel company, outdoor apparel company, and they want to release their winter line.

And it was in the middle of August. Uh, and, and then the founder was like, you know what? I really love the look of Joshua tree. Let’s, you know, let’s do some shoot there. So they specifically request. They want to see like the rocks and stuff at Joshua tree. And it was in the middle of August, which is like a hundred degrees, um, here in California in, in Joshua tree. And, uh, it was a tough, physically tough, uh, shoot because the concept was very outdoorsy where we set literally like set up camps and we have like drones and all that. Um,

And yeah, and then so, so actors having to constantly take the shirt and jacket and all that stuff off because it was just so hot and we don’t want to drench the outfits. But it was such a beautiful sort of experience in a way that like, no single person in the right mind, who is not passionate about this will want to do stuff like that. Right. But, and this is a huge part of why I love what I do and with the people I work with is.

people are just so passionate about this, creating this beautiful video that we’re all just there doing crazy stuff, you know? So that’s one of the most memorable ones. And that was also early on when I really started scaling my agencies too. So that was a really memorable experience.

Jeffro (27:03.005)
Cool. Yeah, for people who are not from California, Joshua Tree sounds like a nice name, like it’ll be green, but it’s a very rocky, dry desert place and it gets super hot. So not a place you’d want to wear winter apparel.

Tony Hsieh (27:12.95)
Very little trees. Oh, definitely not. It’s, it’s, it’s desert. So.

Jeffro (27:18.933)
Awesome. Well, thanks again for being here, Tony. Thanks to all of you guys for listening. Video is here to stay, so make sure you have a plan to use it to your advantage. Take care and I’ll see you in the next episode.

Tony Hsieh (27:28.566)
Thank you.